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starting may day with a how abo following hagel's nomination? i heard from some guy he donated a kidney to mitch mcconnell. what a guy. >> i'm not sure that is exactly right but we will sort it out. thanks for watching. "morning joe" starts right now. >> going all the way. drops it off. in the end zone, touchdown, alabama. tide rolling again. if this was a prizefight, they'd call it off. >> coach, doesn't seem the defense we have really grown to seeing all season. where do they need to come in the second half? >> maybe alabama doesn't come in the second half. it's all albaabama. >> unfortunately for the head

coach, alabama did return for the second half, is there no debating it. alabama has cemented its status as a bona fide college football dynasty after thrashing and offer matched notre dame 42-14 in last night's championship game. willie, it just started that way for notre dame and never came back. it was over before it even began. >> two teams playing a different game. notre dame was the high ranked team at number 1. this was the time alabama was to be taken down. it was clear, what do you figure, 10 minutes into the game? notre dame was offer matched. >> in the first quarter. >> it was done. >> it was 28-0 before you could blink your eye. >> i tried to watch, i did. n even past 10:00. on espn, these men talking, they were obsessed with -- >> these men talking. >> they were like drooling over a beauty queen in the audience.

is that how boring the game was or is that what they do, willie? >> it was a combination of both. it was indeed a boring game. >> it was lecherous. >> i think what you're talking about this is girlfriend of alabama quarterback a.j. mccarron. >> do they know it was kind of awkward? >> a 20-year-old young lady. miss alabama, who by the way goes to auburn. >> brent musburger is a man from a bygone era. >> it was awkward. this is not just me, not what usually happens? >> generally not what happens. want to see it again? >> this is the highlight. >> when you're a quarterback at alabama, you see that lovely young lady there, she does go to auburn. she's also miss alabama. a.j. caron's girlfriend. what a beautiful woman. if you're a youngster in alabama, start getting the football out and throw it around

the backyard. >> there you go. you get the musburger pass on that one. >> what? >> brent musburger has been around a while. >> you can drool on people in the audience on live television? >> on slow episodes of this show, people start -- >> to the right there is his mother, unidentified most of the evening. >> okay. that poor lady. what's wrong with you? >> a grabby uncle, you know, gets a pass. that's brent musburger. >> brent mugs berger sburger is. >> he is? i learned a lot about football last night. >> and joe is off today basking in alabama's big win. joining me on set is willie geist and mark halperin and national affairs editor for "new york" magazine and msnbc

political analyst, i have decided you are "morning joe"'s new men. new men, like sign felt. >> the star of "elf." >> i decided that on twitter with a twitter viewer who seems to feel the same way. >> jon, how do you feel about that? >> heilemann, see -- >> he just folded up his ipad and he's leaving. >> no. >> you two need to go to wendy's wo and work this out. >> and visiting professor at nyu and former democratic congressman, howard ford junior is with us. good morning. very elgadget. how are you? >> i'm good. >> let's get to the news. happy new year. did you have a good one? >> i did. >> we were talking about the hagel nomination that went down and president obama's nomination

team taking shape. former senator chuck hagel has been tapped to take over the lead at the pentagon from leon pennetta, who offered some parting thoughts during the announcement. take a listen. >> the time has come for me to return to my wife, sylvia, our three sons, their families, our six grandchildren and my walnut farm. dealing with a different set of nuts. [ laughter ] >> i guess when you're out-going, mark halperin, you can do that. >> look, he's a funny guy and he survived in washington in public service for 50 years in the military in executive branch and congress being not just serious and smart and dedicated but a really funny and nice guy. incredible story. i was glad to see amist thedst announcement of the new nominees he got his ceremony and i'm sure there will be more in the next

couple of weeks. >> a vietnam soldier and veteran has been nominated as the next secretary of defense and the president emphasized hagel's government service and personal connection to the organization he's now been nominated to run. >> chuck represents the bipartisan tradition we need more of in washington. for his independence and commitment to consensus, he's earned the respect of national security and military leaders, republicans and democrats, including me. in the senate, i came to admire his courage and his judgment, his willingness to speak his mind, even if it wasn't popular. even if it denified the con tension -- conventional wisdom and that's exactly the spirit i want on my national security team. we are not democrats or republicans, we are americans. maybe most importantly, chuck no, sir war is not an abstraction. he understands that sending young americans to fight and bleed in the dirt and mud,

that's something we only do when it's absolutely necessary. the frame of reference he has set is geared towards the guy at the bottom doing the fighting and the dying. >> one of hagel's former colleagues, senate minority whip john cornyn says he has extreme concerns about the nomination. >> i know chuck hagel, he's an honorable man, had a record of distinguished service but he's profoundly wrong on a number of the most important national security issues that face our country today, like denying iran nuclear weapons, like direct face to face negotiations with state department designated terrorist organizations like hamas and calling into question our commitment to our principal ally in the middle east, israel. >> senator mccain released a statement echoing that sentiment, which is so interesting because i think he

even considered hagel as secretary of state in his concept if he were president. anyhow, he said this yesterday. i have serious concerns about positions senator hagel has taken on a range of critical national security issues in recent years. as i just mentioned in 2006, while he was preparing to run for president, mccain was asked whether he'd consider hagel for a cabinet post. he cold the "new york times" quote this. i'd be honored to have chuck with me in any capacity. he'd make a great secretary of state. john heilemann. >> that's one of those things that speaks for itself. >> kind of does. what's wrong with these people? >> there's a lot of -- there are a lot of people that pointed out a lot of republicans fans of chuck hagel's before he buck the party's line on iraq, before he turned against the iraq war are

now not such big fans of chuck hagel. there was a time, joe made this point yesterday on the show, when chuck hagel's brand of republican reform policy and national security outlook was the mainstream of the party. he was vetted for vice president for -- by dick cheney for george w. bush in 2000. he was enough in the mainstream of republican thinking not that long ago, the last republican administration considered for the vice presidential slot. the party has moved far to the right. that's part of what's happened and chuck hagel has not moved with it. part of what's happening, some sense a lot of republicans talked about the israel question, a personal pique in the case of some people and john mccain may be one of them. >> really? >> joe made that point yesterday. there's some people in washington who personally don't like chuck hagel. they may actually like him personally but he rubbed some people the wrong way in the course of doing politics in d.c. what do you think is going on here with someone like senator

mccain says one thing six years ago and another thing today. people like lindsey graham bring up the word "israel" an awful lot. what's at the core of the opposition? >> i think some of those substantive issues do concern him? . john and joe are right. chuck hagel has distanced himself from the republican party in a real and significant way. he essentially voiced support in 2008 for then senator obama's campaign for the presidency. traveled with him offer seas and really worked to squash concerns raised by mccain at the time and some of the fringe of the republican party barack obama was unfit, unqualified and maybe not even an american. this confirmation hearing will be important. it's obvious even some democrats want to hear answers from senator hagel on a variety of issues. have confidence he will be confirmed unless one of these senators steps forward and says he or she will put a hold on his nomination. i doubt that will happen. as long as that doesn't happen

we will have a spirited confirmation and he will be confirmed. >> we get to the point about some democrats being a little tepid. the two of you write about campaign campaigns in game change about the mccain campaign. i know a lot of things are said. so many things happening, the n incoming is so unbelievable for these candidates. do you forget saying someone would be a great secretary of state? do you forget saying that, feeling that, knowing that zblnktsz h? how does that happen? how does senator mccain vote against chuck hagel? >> first, i don't think he has said he will vote against chuck hag hagel. >> how does he do that? i don't think he will. >> they say we want to hear answers and i imagine someone like chuck schumer who is not voicing -- we will get to this in a second will eventually come

around and vote for chuck hagel. john mccain has been a politician drought his career driven by personal grudges -- >> like susan rice? >> yes. that was another case part of what was driving him. in this case, i do think part of what he would say, if he were here, back to the policy point, there's no greater champion of the iraq war and surge and everything that happened after that than john mccain was and no greater critic of that than republican chuck hagel. he would make the case it is not just a personal thing although i believe part of it is personal and this element they do have very different world views now. >> which is why the confirmation hearing and his answers will be that much more critical than earlier. >> they also, as you mentioned, harold, reservations from democrats with members of the party stopping short of offering hagel a full throated endorsement. senator chuck schumer of new york released a statement

reading in part quote chuck hagel has earned the right to nothing less than a full and fair process in the senate. i look forward to fully studying his record and exploring his views. at the white house yesterday, hagel did not address the controversy surrounding his nomination. >> mr. president, i'm grateful for this opportunity to serve our country again. especially its men and women in uniform and their families. these are people who give so much to this nation everyday with such dignity and selflessness. i will always do my best. i will do my best for our country, for those i represent at the pentagon and for all our citizens. mr. president, i will always give you my honest and most inform informed counsel. >> hagel did however defend himself in an interview with his hometown newspaper in the lincoln journal star saying quote the distortions about my

record have been astounding, adding there is not one shred of evidence i'm anti-israeli, not one vote that matters that hurt israe israel. >> mark halperin, back to the democrats and their lukewarm response to this and to his comments in his hometown newspaper. what do you make of it? is he correct in what he's saying about his record? >> some democrats are already supporting. jack reed, another veteran senator from rhode island. some are holding their fire and keeping their powder dry if i can cram some cliches in there. it's unusual to do an interview when you're awaiting confirmation. you're supposed to do an immediate blackout. he chose his hometown newspaper to do it. while do we care about this as a political story, will he be confirmed or not? everybody thinks in the end he will be. senator schumer is key here. a democratic nominee who doesn't

have a scandal or personal scandal, all about policy, very rare to beat somebody just on policy, particularly if it stays an inside game. are there people in washington, in elite circles who want to stop hagel? absolutely. is the public engage on this? no way, not now. the challenge for the people who oppose is to do one of two things, either get the public engaged and say we want to stop chuck hagel, unlikely or pick off a prominent democratic senator who says i can't support this person. schumer is the key. if schumer supports hagel, almost impossible to stop him. >> i have to say, not to -- i feel like this is all - all -- especially the extreme opposition here, it's kind of a waste of time. tell me the value that chuck hagel would bring to the table as the first secretary of defense who has actually served, who was wounded in war, knows the ins and outs of the senate of the halls of congress. he brings to the table -- he's a

republican, at a time when washington needs sort of a bipartisan attitude injected into the system. can't imagine why this would become a massive fight. if it does, my god, it makes the fiscal cliff debacle look tiny. really? are we doing this? are these people doing this? sn>> in fairness, i do think it important for some of these things to be laid out. if i were in the u.s. senate, i would support chuck hagel. >> to call it extreme, in your face nomination. >> that's politics at its worst and its least. he will have to answer questions specifically about sequestration. leon panetta is on record saying sequestration would hurt the department and undermine our defense capabilities and how he would downsize the pentagon. i'm interested in hearing. >> it will. >> i think he has great ideas and i'd love to hear. he has to answer questions about israel and iran and questions

about whether his previous positions would allow the iranians, stop the iranians from getting a nuclear-these are important questions and the other is carl levin who chairs one of the more important committees in this senate as well. you're right, it's all about schumer. >> before we go to break, want to ask you two, halpern and heilemann and about the passing of richard ben cramer, who wrote the opus, to pick your word, "what it takes" about the 1998 presidential campaign. for people who don't know his work and what he meant, john, i'll start with you. who was this man and why was he so influential? >> richard was a newspaper journalist initially. covered a lot of stories from city hall to the middle east before he became a magazine journalist, worked for "rolling stone," esquire, "sports illustrated," before he went down that path. this book was the pantheon of the great campaign books, written about the 1998 campaign

and took him a long time to do it, came out in four years after. it became one of the classic books that reporters and people in politics look to as having been definitive, not just about that campaign but style of campaign journalism, a blend of deeply researched reporting with new journalistic techniques in the tom wolfe kind of school. it's an incredible, incredible book. the most impress sev thing about it, true of all his books of politics. he wrote some of the best sports profiles about ted williams and joe dimaggio. he's the most sympathetic writer you can imagine, always striving to understand the world that his characters, how they saw the world. he would say he's always trying to get behind their eyes. he didn't write in a confrontational way, trying to see the world as his characters

saw the world and gave them em immense empathy very rich and rare in our business. >> coming up, new york city mayor michael bloomberg. >> well said. >> general stanley mcchrystal and former security advisor dr. brzezinski. first, bill cakarins with a loo at the forecast. >> thank you, mika. a nice warm day across much of the country. it's a little chilly. if you're traveling in the greater houston or galveston area, have showers or thunderstorms heading your way about local time 4:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m. is when we see the worst rolling through, pretty much from now maybe until about 6:00 or 7:00. if you're flying, i think most of the airlines won't start up until after the rain is gone. then we have another round of

showers and thunderstorms later on today. damaging winds and possibly tornadoes. and we're watching south florida and much of the nation. the snow is melting in a hurry across missouri, illinois, indiana, through the great lakes. even illinois going to do significant snow melt. 44 in boston and 53 in washington d.c. pretty incredible this time of the year. as we go throughout this week, no signs of cooler air. rain in this east thursday-friday and another warm week, could be 50s in the week for new england patriots football game. incredible for mid january. i've always kept my eye on her... but with so much health care noise, i didn't always watch out for myself.

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23 past the hour. time to take a look at the morning papers. the "new york times" on the heels of paying back a $182 billion bailout. aig is mulling whether or not to sue the federal government. on wednesday, the company's board will consider joining a $25 billion shareholder lawsuit. the litigants argue the government's high interest rates on the loan cheated shareholders out of billions of dollars. >> the "charlotte observer," 10 mortgage lenders including bank of america ca and wells fargo have made a settlement totaling $8.5 billion and go to cash payments and mortgage relief and end a lengthy close of mortgage practices. many banks were accused of robo-signing mortgages while false falsely saying they reviewed each case. around the country, many

representatives are proposing bills to arm teachers. in tennessee alone, there are four bills that would allow teachers to be armed in the classroom or increased police presence on campus. according to the orlando sentinel, at least one school board member and district there wants teachers and principals to be armed with guns but by the school district. are we really going here? we're really going here, airport we? >> some places. the mississippi star tribune. in june, a chicago man won a $1 million lotto scratchoff but then suddenly died of what would appear to be natural causes. now, his death has turned into a homicide investigation after a medical examiner determined he died of a lethal dose of cyanide and they will exhume the body to determine who killed him. at the electronics show,

televisions are getting a lot of attention including samsung's 85 inch set that could sell as much as $20,000. it has four times the resolution of current hdtvs and offers personalized suggestions for each viewer in the house. you can even swipe from screen to screen like an ipad on your wall. i guess like this. >> you have to be able to swipe. >> what the heck? >> a lot to see. >> we don want that for us. that's bad for us? >> good for you, bad for me. >> a look at the playbook executive editor. good morning. >> happy new year. >> happy new year to you. with your doing behind the curtain piece this morning, what you call the modern republican party by looking at one freshman congressman in particular, tom

cotton, a republican. why do you look at him and what does he represent? >> you look at someone like tom cotton and figure out why is it we can't get a grand fiscal cli cliff -- fiscal bargain and why gun laws unlikely in the next congress and immigration harder than people think. you look at a guy like tom cotton a mainstream republican, opposed to any new gun laws and pathway to citizenship and willing to default if necessary to get bigger spending cuts in the next two months. to a lot of folks in the media, crazy radical from the south, he is the republican party. until you understood 150 members are just like him, you won't understand the complexities of the president and speaker boehner trying to navigate this republican party in the next congress. >> you talk a little bit about his rise. he was down 47 points in his first internal poll and then the club for growth stepped in, right? >> i think a lot of people, when nay talk about why is washington so polarized, they blame it on

redistricting. i think there is a much bigger cause, one that has not gotten enough attention. that is groups like the clubs for growth has gotten smart and they intervene in the primary process. in this case, the club for growth sent tom cotton $300,000 in checks from its members and helped him win the primary. he won his republican primary. now, he feels incentive to respond to the club for growth, not john boehner and republican leadership. they weren't involved in the primary. that has really changed how a lot of this new generation of republicans, how they see washington. they don't respond to the traditional incentives, give me a good committee assignment, let me bring back pork to my constituents. they don't want any of that, they don't care about any of that. they care about their constituents and activists. >> good morning. hearing-impair harold ford. what is the answer? how do we navigate to get them into the process?

i happen to agree with you and an unfortunate reality. >> the only answer is you have to cut spending, all they care about all they've really known. if you're a republican in your first or second term. the only success you've ever seen is when republicans railed against obama-care and spending and won a ton of seats, historic number of seats, i might add, in 2010. they want to make government smaller, don't want new gun laws and don't want any spending. they really don't care about default. they don't want a default but they think the consequences of inaction are so much more severe than not doing anything right now so they're willing to do it. people who say they'll never do it, they'll never do it, i think you might want to do a vote count and re-look at this republican conference and don't do that. >> interesting look at tom cotton, veteran of two wars, harvard undergraduate and harvard law school. up four touchdowns, the

quarterback and center get in a shoving match. >> why were they fighting? they were doing well, right? >> yes. 42-14 at that point. highlights next. this is $100,000. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much. i appreciate it. i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. your money needs an ally. [ male announcer ] the exclusive air suspension in the 2013 ram 1500.

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♪ >> that's your alabama fight song. that was a picture of a member of our family. mr. joe scarborough. he had to be there. >> of course,. >> a southern accent. >> why don't i just be quiet. what happened, willie? >> alabama, as we told you at the top of the show, propelled itself into dynasty status. just tearing up notre dame, 42-14, probably wasn't that close. here's how it got started in miami. sizing each other up in the tunnel. don't do that, notre dame. that won't work out well for you. fist drive of the game, a.j. mccarron, hands off to eddie lacy. right up the gut, almost untouched. 20 yard touchdown. alabama on the board first and never looked back. scored a touchdown in each of their first three possessions. alabama up 21-0.

mccarron throws short to lacy. look at that, getting in the end zone, his second touchdown. mccarron takes his time in the pocket. finds a wide open amare cooper for the touchdown, that's a freshman. alabama up 35-0. mccarron back next year, cooper is back next year, they will be good again. a little intrigue on the fourth quarter. confusion on the snap. american center jones, mccarron gets in his face and jones shoves him aside, pushes him back. they hugged it out later on the sideline. broth brothers don't shake hands, brothers get a hug. >> nick saban, said he had his team watch "zero dark thirty" before the championship game and maybe that accounts for intensity. then the requisite gatorade. >> didn't seem like he liked that. >> 42-14. the third national title in four years for alabama, fourth for saban in his career.

he won at lsu. he spoke after the game about the long celebration that will ensue all of 24 hours. >> i'm proud of what they were able to accomplish this year. two days from now we have to start on next year. we have a 24-hour rule around here. >> seriously? >> that's about 60 seconds after he won the title, he's thinking about next year. we have to turn the page. >> he's the least happy successful man. >> you have to think ahead. >> i think we should have put him in charge of finding bin laden five years ago. the guy is unbelievable how he focuses. congratulations. it's a lot for me to say congratulations to alabama. >> it's amazing what he's done there. bear bryant is bear bryant, nick saban is starting to creep up there. >> congratulations to notre dame. they had a great season. ron kelly put them back on the map. good for college football and notre dame to be in the conference. >> while we're talking about the

sec, vanderbilt, if i may say, finished ranked 23rd in the final ap poll. they haven't finished a season ranked since 1948. 1948. >> you guys were ranked like 12 or so. you guys had a great season, vanderbilt. >> why don't we ever go to vandy? i would like to. we went to alabama. >> have to hire a lot of security. >> poor joe, met all his friends at his alma mater. he took me to the stadium. it was funny, like i made better use of the stadium than he did. a beautiful stadium on the campus of the university of alabama. >> what does that mean when you say that, made better use of that? >> good question. take a look. >> what's the secret to our success? >> practice like champions, we work like champions, and we play like champions. any questions?

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brzezinskier welcome back to "morning joe."

live look at the capitol. it doesn't mean it's not time to wake up. looking at new polls, new numbers on chris christie, i think are really interesting given how he's done things. 73% of registered new jersey voters say they approve of the job christie is doing as governor. you can read into those numbers and see there's a diverse amount of support for him, mark halperin. >> if you're trying to look at him as a national figure. he's done a great job during the storm. democrats, cory booker decided not to run against him. no obvious democrat to run against him, up for re-election and in a towering position and said in an interview if he decided to run for president this time he'd be a lot more ready to run than in 2012 if he took a pass. in a lot more formidable place in terms of the party. >> that's what i was going to say in terms of being a potential real candidate. i would assume there are high

level republicans talking to him, courting him, trying to make it happen. they certainly did last time around. these numbers help in a big way, chuck. >> he's taken it one step at a time, getting the governorship, getting re-elected matters a lot to him. he's obviously on track to do that. he's the favorite of a lot of republican money, especially in this city in the tri-state region. he will go into an intensely competitive primary which is important. what the party looks like two years from now is still pretty much up for grabs. there are a lot of different factions within the party. his appeal could be crossover. there's a lot of people in the tea party factions who were attracted to him in 2012. whether he will continue to be that candidate or others will emerge, that's an open question. >> i was going to ask you jr, d his relationship and praise for president obama during the hurricane, his coming out the

other day an trashing very publicly, john boehner, by name, does that hurt him long term or is that a better place for him to be? >> that is the right question. the last segment we had talking about the strength of the republican party being in the primary and important groups, picking underdogs who align themselves ideologically with those groups, can he fit in that mode? does he play in that sandbox, too? he's better when it's a big issue, bipartisan, embraces democrats and republicans to get things done where i think the mainstream of the country is. at the end of the day, only two people in the republican party warrant a conversation, jeb bush and chris christie. and i think you put mario rubio after that. it's interesting to see him do well bigger than the party and

politics today. >> many argue he fits the mold today. david brooks, why hagel was picked. the bottom line. chuck hagel has been nominated to supervise this generation long process of defense cutbacks. if a democratic president is going to slash defense he probably wants a republican at the pentagon to give him cover and probably wants a decorated war hero to boot. all the charges about israel and iran are secondary. the real question is how will he begin this long cutting process? how will he balance modernizing the military and cutting current personnel. how will he balance defense straelt with say 455,000 fewer service members? how will he balance the military decline. if members of congress don't want america to decline military, they have no one to blame but voters and themselves.

>> i think that is a smart take from david brooks, certainly is this case, as a management task, managing the pentagon is a monstrous job and managing it at this time is a particularly monstrous job. the argument there is an argument why a lot of democrats pick republicans to help them give them political coverage doing tough things at the pentagon and applies to chuck hagel as much. it raises the question, will he be confirmed, does he have a lot of management experience? leon panetta had a lot of management experience and gates had a lot of management experience and chuck hagel doesn't have that. when we come back, big ideas and small business success for two buddies. they join us with their small business success story next on "morning joe." [ hudson ] we're human. we fall down. we gain weight.

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welcome back to "morning joe." the co-founders of a small business, their 3-year-old small business on the rise growing at a rate of 200% each year. >> that's good.

a good rate of growth. good to see you. first things first, a new father, paul. congratulations. new year's eve baby. >> seven minutes before the ball dropped. snow maybe there >> how much sleep have you gotten zblnt maybe there's a reason you're here and not with the baby. we want to bring you guys in, you have first such a great story in school together and also facing the headwinds a lot of people have faced the last few years with the economy and succeeding. paul, i start with you. how did you guys get together on this and why did you choose shirts? >> a great question. we weren't always shirt makers. we were in business school in 2007 in the uk and we were heading to world finance in 2007, seemed to be the direction to go. as luck would have it and life have it we graduated the day before lehman brothers went down and plans changed as for a lot of people at the time. >> are you guys even 30? >> yes. >> just checking.

>> a little over 30. >> a little north of 30. >> we came out and started to panic and gave us an opportunity to say the jobs we were supposed to do after business school don't exist anymore. we always loved clothes and lived in london and spoiled by this idea of german street and going sort of one great specialist who does it really well. we came back from the states. i'm from virginia and paul from louisiana and had trouble finding things as simple as shirts that fit well, the right quality that lasted a long time. what if we had an american shirt maker that focused on fit and quality based in the u.s. and had an american brand. see the shirts everywhere now. you sort of cracked the code in terms of men are difficult to shop for. it's this fit of the shirt and you found it. how did you grow the business? how is it i see them everywhere now and i can tell it's a ledbury. >> that's encouraging. we like to hear that. it's been word of mouth.

>> i am. >> we tell someone like harold and harold will wear the shirt. >> willie is your number one model. i got introduced to the company and i love it. >> it in no way compensated spokesperson. i got them and love the shirts. >> we had it -- people are coming back. that's something about a small business, your friends and family will buy something once. when people start coming back, we have a guy now shopping for 16 months and has 120 shirts. people are buying more. >> that's a lot. >> in growing a business, that's what happens to a small business and how they get off the ground. >> what is the challenge? you have been growing but not easy to start a small business in this climate. >> our biggest challenge has been dealing with the demand. a great challenge to have. an inventory heavy business dealing with an offer whelming demand has been far and away our biggest challenge to date. >> also convincing people in 2008 that starting a luxury shirt business was the right

move. >> that's called thinking outside the box. >> it was. i think i was told more than once we should be making burlap shirts, where the economy -- >> garbage bags. >> simple proof it was a simple business, make them fit better and put it online and make it an e-commerce business we would have something. >> it's kind of counselor intuitive and i've heard people say it's a good time to start a small business. why is that? >> i think it's cost, first of all. you get start-up costs for half of what you would before. we had great deals. for people like us, we recalibrated the way people purchase. there was a time in 2007, people would buy a $300 shirt and say, a $300 shirt has a logo, great brand, fine. for us, we started this and people said, i want to shop differently, want to know what it's made of and the construction and quality and value and we offer that and educate them not. for us, it turned out to be a perfect time to start a higher

end. >> what do they cost? >> about $135. and you go online and cut out the middleman. it's an a wholesale environment. that might be $250 above. people really respond to that and everybody can appreciate a value. >> a good story. a couple buddies making good. >> 200%. >> congratulations on ledbury and on your baby, more important. coming up next, the president on the council of foreign relations. richard haass of the romney campaign, dan senore, much to talk about. also, mayor michael bloomberg of new york city and mika's dad, dr. brzezinski. >> well done, willie. with the spark cash card from capital one, sven gets great rewards for his small business! how does this thing work? oh, i like it!

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the time has come for me to return to my wife, sylvia, our three sons, their family, our six grandchildren, and my walnut farm. dealing with a different set of nuts. [ laughter ] >> wow. okay. welcome back to "morning joe." that was funny. that was genuine. mark halperin and harolded for junior are with us and also, the president on council of foreign relations, richard haass. did you think that was funny,

richard? >> a genuinely nice man, he will be missed? what's nuttier? a walnut farm or washington. speaking of foreign policy advisor -- wh? whoo -- >> i'll just get up and leave. >> believe me, that was nicer than heilemann at the 6:00 hour. i called him the newman of the show. he's gone. i'm sorry. the people on twitter are with you. they say it's not show. >> richard and i are here for the best dressed segment, the two guys that were just here. >> no, i don't think you are. but you might be. you have a nice new tie on. you went in there and what happened? >> friends of the show -- >> gave you a tie. >> you look dapper. dan, you look okay, too. >> wow! >> caught pulitzer prize winning columnist, msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson is

always handsome. >> glad to be on your good side this morning. >> good to have you on. we will have general stanley mcchrystal coming up on the next half hour and michael bloomberg coming up in the next hour of "morning joe." president obama's choices for his second term national security team are taking shape. former republican senator check hagel, a decorated soldier and vietnam veteran has been tapped to take over the lead at the pentagon. president obama yesterday emphasized hagel's personal service and connection to the organization he's now been nominated to run. >> chuck represents the bipartisan tradition we need more of in washington. for his independence and commitment to consensus, he's earned the respect to national security and military leaders, republicans and democrats including me. in the senate, i came to admire his courage and his judgment, his willingness to speak his mind, even if it wasn't popular, even if it defied the

conventional wisdowisdom. that's exactly the spirit i want on my national security team. when it comes to defense of the country we are not democrats or republicans, we are americans and most importantly, chuck knows war is not a distraction. he understands that sending young americans to fight and bleed in the dirt and mud, that's something we only do when it's absolutely necessary. my frame of reference, he has said, is geared towards the guy of the bottom, who is doing the fighting and the diel. >> we've gone over the past 24 hours, richard haass, his experience as a war hero, soldier, ceo and as a member of the senate. if you could give us your take on the hagel nomination as it

pur tain pertains to hagel, kerry, brennan, the trifecta, if all go throug through. >> the national security council starts looking like the foreign relation relations committee. these people are all comfortable with one another. there's a high comfort level. you won't hear all this talk of team of rio and brothers and the rest. this is going to be people who are closer, experienced washington hands. i think to some extent what you're seeing is a certain skepticism about the use of military force. but brennan aside, a second set of issues. you look at the principle foreign experiences, what have they been, iraq and afghanistan. two wars of choice, large undertakings, i would think two rank advised. iraq from the get-go and i think they come into office with big

questions about this, all now against the backdrop of parts of the world other than the middle east suddenly looking unsettled, specifically asia pacific and against the backdrop of growing american economic problems and you have a different mindset and i think it's appropriate to this moment in history. >> to add, when you bring up afghanistan, it makes me think about his service in vietnam. for some soldiers there now might question what's going on? do people even know they exist and what they're fighting for because there is a disconnect in this country, as we know. it must be frustrating for the soldiers serving and giving his or her life everyday in repeat tours of duty in the this endless war of afghanistan and i would think someone like senator chuck hagel would understand the mindset of a soldier in afghanistan. >> absolutely right.

and hagel will understand like the people in afghanistan now you're not really spending your day involved in geopolitical abstractions of foreign policy debates, you're there for your own survival and survival of the man or woman next to you, it's focused on day-to-day realities something hagel underwent in vietnam unlike afghanistan unpopular. vietnam wildly controversial. iraq and afghanistan, more importantly, the whole relationship between american society and the military has changed, far more positive in the way we look upon these people who made this extraordinary sacrifice and extraordinary commitment. still, this is a difficult time. chuck hagel will be there and i think he will be there, get confirmed and be there for most of the winding down of afghanistan, a residual force, a few thousand people. more important, just as important, he will be there for serious budget cutting. the biggest challenge facing the secretary of defense how to go

from something like north of $500 billion a year for defense to something south of it? how are we going to allocate those cuts and allocate the presence and use of assets we still have. very big decisions? >> given those last questions, dan senor, do you think chuck hagel is a good pick? >> i don't. i have tremendous respect for him, his military service. he truly is an american hero. we had secretaries of defense who served in the military and secretaries of defense who haven't. don rumsfeld, macnamara served in the military. it is an important attribute. i don't think it is the definition of criteria for secretary of defense. thick there will be questions. >> why doesn't he meet the criteria of success for secretary of defense. >> here's the thing. there will be confirmation hearings and things to be asked. one is this question whether or not chuck hagel has been outside the mainstream bipartisan

consensus on a range of foreign policy issues, national security issues, particularly the ones this administration will be dealing with in this next term. take iran. do the math. sanctions against iran. chuck hagel has been against sanctions. he said sanctions against iran, the kind the president supports would isolate americans. the senate voted 96-2, one of two senators to vote against it. sanctions against syria in the early part of the 2000. 89 senators voted for it. he voted against it. a letter to the eu asking the eu to designate hezbollah a terrorist organization. 88 senators signed it. he was one of the ones who didn't. when there was a letter to russia asking to deal with the rising tide of anti-semitism in russia. 99 senators signed the letter, one did not, chuck hagel. he has the right to have those

interviews but there is a bipartisan consensus in washington illustrated by the math outside it. the question is why does the president want that in the discussion? why does he want that person with those judgments running the pentagon at this time? those are important questions to be explored during the hearing. >> he should have the opportunity to answer that. he has made clear on matters that impact israel the most in a positive way, i would not have been on the side of senator hagel in those votes, important to answer it and important to look at his entire record. on the things that matter most with u.s. policy and our great ally, israel, he has been as responsible as any when it comes to financial support snow democrats are -- senator ben cardin, a prominent democrat said, i'm not sure i have serious questions and chuck schumer has weeks to weigh in and with holding. why are democrats holdingback if he has such a normal view.

in the confirmation hearing will be vital. you prejudged and said no. thankfully we have democrats who say we want to hear answers to this. i'm a democrat and give him the benefit of the doubt to many arctticulated by richard. he served in the military and has an open mind and supported things and you may disagree with him i give him great credit for having an open mind and being mature to saying i can evolve. >> at this point in confirmation hearings what we call the top four cabinet post, state, defense, treasury, justice, the president normally gets members from both parties coming out saying we're behind whoever you pick. okay. this is not a normal case. i've never seen so many senators holding back, particularly senators from the president's party, for a defense pick. >> so what? that's also because of the

politics, the fact he was put out there and he had a -- his name was out there for weeks. >> let me say one thing, dan senor. yesterday on "morning joe," from the "washington post," dave ignatius was on the show. i want to take a quote from that conversation. he says this about hagel and israel. chuck hagel, like almost any member of congress i can think of j has been a strong supporter of the u.s. military relationship with israel. he's voted time and again to support various resolutions and authorizations. if you look at all the votes, all the things he has done as senator, you will find a strong supporter of israel security. >> i'm simply saying just look -- i appreciate what david said. i'm citing you actual votes. july 24th, 2001, there's a major vote on iran libya sanctions act. the vote was 96-2. >> can you pull up others as well?

you can't. >> no. he actually has voted for foreign aid to israel. i'm simply saying the united states is going to be dealing with major issues like iran and syria. these are major issues in the region. i'm simply saying he's had very strong views on this, very much a minority view on this. i'm saying shouldn't that be part of the discussion? shouldn't senators be allowed to ask him serious questions behind this before they get behind the president's confirmation. >> i think it's important we have a secretary of defense some what wary of the use of military forces. that is healthy in american foreign policy. not an abstraction. >> senator mccain released a statement agreeing with you, i have serious concerns about the positions senator hagel has taken 0en a range of critical national security issues in recent years. it is a tad bit in contrast to what he said back in 2006 when he was preparing to be president, mccain was asked whether he'd consider hagel for

a cabinet post and he told the "new york times" quote i'd be honored to have chuck with me in any capacity. he'd make a great secretary of state. eugene robinson chime in. >> all these questions will be asked at the confirmation hearings. frankly think in the end, the senators will be satisfied with chuck hagel's answers. he's not going to be setting administration policy. administration foreign policy is being set in the white house basicall basically, with consultation with the cabinet members obviously. president obama is going to be setting policy. what chuck hagel is going to be doing is cutting the budget in the filigree and pentagon and t extent, i think, managing this o sort of shift in focus president obama has talked about toward the asia pacific region where trouble is a-brewing and we

better pay attention to it. i think those two tasks are what chuck hagel is going to be asked to do. those are the questions and answers i will be paying particular attention to. >> joining me is chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "t "the daily rundown," chuck todd. you heard dan senor, who vehemently has pretty strong opinions about chuck hagel. i don't know about this opposition. it seems very singular and extreme. i haven't read or played john cornyn in a while. it seems like we have to go back to the same old well to find the opposition. am i wrong or is there growing opposition? >> i think you're right it is singular. i want to pick up on a point dan was making and noting, asking, i don't know if it was a question of harold or rhetorical question about why are there a handful of

democrats, i don't know if we want to measure yet so many, why are there some significant democrats, chuck schumer, ben cardin, i heard about others, maybe barbara boxer, others, why are they not effusive in saying they're rallying around, they will definitely support chuck hagel, they don't want to take a tough vote, don't want to take a vote on hagel if it turned into a tough vote on israel, bottom line. israel is a subject areas in foreign policy that can get turned into domestic politics and can get turned into something a politician or elected official hears about at home or somebody who's a donor or supporter. that's why you'd see the hand wringing, why i bring up the question dan posed earlier, you see the hand wringing. you get the sense democrats wish the president didn't do it because they don't like to take

tough votes. will they be there at the end? yes. as long as there's not something else. hagel is in that precarious position, if this is everything we know, he's going to make it through, not going to be the normal bipartisan way most of the major cabinet secretaries get but he'll get through. if there is another thing, an inelegant way hagel handles himself at the confirmation hearings, you can see his support right now is sort of what i call an inch deep, if he's not careful. >> mark halperin. >> obviously, this will proceed on a track parallel to the next round of fiscal cliff talks. any sign yet when his courtesy calls to senators start and date for confirmation hearing? i hear it's going to be pushed back a bit beyond the normal interval. >> reporter: we haven't heard yet and a lot of them are out of town and some are taking place

via telephone. we don't yet. you heard, i think there w was -- the president didn't just decide to say, hey, it's critical we get these folks confirmed, we don't want to have gap in foreign policy. that wasn't just a throw away line, as you know, that was because they're getting concerned this was not proceeding on as speedy a track they would like to see when it comes to getting the confirmation hearing set up and getting this moving forward. i have a feeling we may be -- i don't know if chuck hagel is going to be in person listening to the president's state of the union, put it that way. i don't know if it gets done by then. >> he clearly has a problem, hagel does on the right with republicans, and there was talk potentially on the left with gay rights supporters. does that seem to you have been put to rest or still a potential threat for him? >> i don't think that's much of a potential threat. i think he probably -- this mice

guess, hear him say his views on gay rights have evolved as have the views of many americans and frankly the spectacle of the republican party waving the banner of gay rights is one i'd like to see, kind of interesting to watch but i don't think we will see much of that. >> richard haass. >> yesterday, you got confused on this show an had chuck hagel serving with senator mcconnell's brother. some of his fans are getting him confused with the german philosopher. this is chuck hagel the senator actually in the foreign policy mainstream not this 18th century german philosopher. his name is spelt differently. >> when hagel's name was put out, about washington foreign policy issues, writing a column the reason chuck hagel should be confirmed because he's outside the mainstream. many champions making the case for highway twelve was that he

was outside the mainstream and needed to shake up the foreign policy discussion. for hagel. and those discussions about he's outside the mainstream, we should have a vigorous debate of chuck hagel, then we're smear merchants? we say he's outside the mainstream and reason for debat debate. >> are there questions around israel and security and you can allay your concerns and even some republicans. >> i think over the next several years this administration has to be dealing with iran and syria and really complicated issues not just about israel. he should explain why his world view is so not only outside the mainstream of the congressional bipartisan congressional consensus, outside the administration's consensus. even yesterday in an interview he gave, he said the reason he opposed certain sanctions in congress because they didn't

work. those are some of the sanctions today the administration says is key to the success in iran and why the economy is still weakening. he's saying those sanctions didn't work. he needs to explain. >> he'll have that opportunity. >> richard, you look so patient. >> i am a patient man. >> eugene, thank you very much. >> eugene's column discusses shanahan's decision to leave rg3 in the game. >> he was wrong. reckless endangerment. there ought to be an arrest warrant. >> check that out. and we'll be back on "morning joe." richard and dan stay with us. general stanley mcchrystal discusses his new memoir and mayor michael bloomberg announce his new initiative, announcing today. at 1:45, the aflac duck was brought in with multiple lacerations to the wing and a fractured beak.

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i don't make this decision based on any difference in policy with general mcchrystal as we are in full agreement about our strategy. the conduct represented in the recently published article does not need the standard that should be set by a commanding general. it undermines the civilian control of the military that is at the core of our democratic system. it erodes the trust that's necessary for our team to work together to achieve our objectives in afghanistan. >> welcome back to "morning joe." that was president obama back in june of 2010, announcing the resignation of his top general in afghanistan, stanley mcchrystal and the general joins us now, out with his new memoir, "my share of the task." we'll get to the resignation and "rolling stone" article and questions surrounding that in just a moment. first, i want to ask you about your share of the task. the book takes a look at the

president and pentagon and how it worked and didn't work between the two entities, as it pertains to afghanistan. tell us in the book what you share about that relationship. >> thanks for having me. i appreciate the chance to be here this morning. first, the title "my share of this task" actually comes from a phrase of ranger creed i grew up with. what it tries to embody is the ethos each of us has a share of the task, none of us is central or alone and each of us has a responsibility to each other for our contribution of what has to happen. i think that was my thinking about writing this book here. one of the things i can contribute is a lot of soldiers in america are really anonymous to american people. we see them in airports, we might buy them a male ineal in restaurant. they're not in our families or towns and particularly the special operators i spent so much time on, become these

shadowy iconic figures we don't know personally. what i tried to do with my share of the task is shine a little bit of light on them in a way i think respects moo my admiration for all i've done. >> a long distinguished career mostly out of the media spotlight as most generals are and then you decided to spend some time with the guy from "rolling stone." what happened and what lessons did you learn? >> i learned a lot. i did spend a lot of my career in the shadows. when i was in afghanistan, one of my responsibilities was communicate the allies of the 46 nations to the people of afghanistan to the american leadership an also to mothers and fathers in america, whose sons and daughters are there. i think they needed, they deserved transparency of what they were doing, what we were doing and how we were operating. we did a number of media, new and different for me.

we did a number of embeds we allowed different reporters in, tried to get them from every part of the spectrum. you don't want just people who just believe in you, that doesn't help very much. i was the background of trying to get as much transparency as possible. >> you talk about the soldiers and lack of connection sometimes between us and them. and i think that's why i like chuck hagel as a choice to head. it just seems to me it would help to have that insight. would you agree? >> i think insight for any leader who has either on the ground experience or up close personal experience is extraordinarily valuable. it's not an automatic prerequisite or quality requirement for a job. but it makes a difference. >> i think it helps an awful lot. i would say more important is trust. the most important measure for somebody for a president's cabinet or senior leader is do the two of them have a relationship of trust because they are going to face very

complex things in the years ahead that can't be predicted right now. >> richard haass. >> you were associated with the transformation of the army in places like afghanistan. we've now gone through two major wars where you and david petraeus did different things in different ways. do you think that now survives you, the fact you are both out of uniform in civilian life. will the lessons of haviafghani shape she army and future or say, we don't want any more of that. >> interesting, i can speak about the army itself. like any institution it has a certain amount of muscle memory and tries to spring back to previous ways and previous habits. after vietnam there was an effort to wipe the whiteboard clean and move back to what we were and something different. i fear the army and nation may try to do that with these wars. in fact, there's tremendous lessons learned, there's painful lessons. the biggest lesson we learned is

know, if you really want to do well at something, understand it. understand it before you start it but then make every other effort to understand it as you execute. i think the winner in most modern conflicts will be the people who know the most. >> implicit in that is in the war in iraq and afghanistan we simply didn't know enough before hand about local realities what we were getting into and how to contend with it. >> richard, we didn't know enough when we went in and we were very slow in learning. we did learn over time and we were slow. we were slow as an organization and nation to focus ourself to learn faster. there were some parts i think we did but many areas i think we could do much better. that needs to be how we think about our military forces in the future. how do you make them learning organizations? because nobody knows what the next war is going to look like. what we do know is who learns the fastest during it and corrects during the process is going to win. >> general, i want to ask you a bit more about the "rolling stone" article.

first, we have mayor bloomberg coming up and one of his big issues is guns. i'm just wondering, curious, does assault weapons, like the bushmaster, have a place in our society here in america? what is your position? especially given the recent event events? >> i spent a career carrying typically either an m-16 and later m4 carbine. and m4 carbine fires a 223 caliber round, 5.56 mill litter at 3,000 feet per second. when it hits a human body, the effects are devastating. it's designed to do that. that's what our soldiers ought to carry. personally don't think there's any need for that kind of weaponry on the streets and particularly around the schools in america. i believe that we've got to take a serious look. i understand everybody's desire to have whatever they want. we have to protect our children and our police and we have to

protect our population. we have to take a very mature look at that. >> we're talking about background checks and banning certain types of assault weapons. we're talking about trying to reduce the number of these guns and the ammunition that feeds them in our society. first of all, do you think that's possible and would you support legislation? would you i don't know go around the country and actually be very vocal about this? >> i think serious action is necessary. sometimes we talk about very limited actions on the edges. i just don't think that's enough. >> do you think that can be done? >> i think we'll find out. >> what's your message to the nra and members of the house e judd dishry committee? >> i think we have to look at this legislation. the number of people killed by firearms is extraordinary compared to other nations. euroing we're i don't think we're a blood thirsty culture and we need to look at everything we can do to

safe guard our people. >> i appreciate your honesty on this. let me quickly ask you, the "rolling stone" article kind of exploded on our show that morning it broke and led to a fairly quick departure. do you feel misunderstood about parts of those -- the repo reporting -- and is there anything you would change looking back? >> first, i would tell you, as a commander, i take responsibility for what happened. when i came back to offer my resignation to president obama, that's exactly what i told him, i take responsibility, because that's what commanders do, and move on. i think that the media controversy that arose around that, i actually believe that it may not be entirely accurate, but the commander in chief who i worked for was my commander in chief and still my commander in chief. i owe him not to put such things on his desk, not to have him face controversies. whether it's my fault or not, it's my responsibility.

i think it's front that i -- i was raised, the responsibility is what you accept, and i don't have any problem doing that. >> the memoir is "my share of the task." you can read and excerpt on our blog mojo.msnbc.com, general stanley mcchrystal, thank you and thank you for your comments on guns. i hope to work with you on that in some way. straight ahead, new york city mayor michael bloomberg joins us on set. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ dad ] find it? ya. alright, another one just like that. right in the old bucket. good toss! see that's much better! that was good. you had your shoulder pointed, you kept your eyes on your target.

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year and we have about 7,000 days. >> i think there's better use, trust me. the mayor of new york city michael bloomberg to announce the new financial and power initiative. also with us best selling author and award winning journalist, carl bernstein and co-host of cnbc street signs, brian sullivan joining the table with dan seymour and me this morning. you talked about in the "new york times" about your potential successor. does that mean there's no fourth term? >> there's no fourth term. the article was so erroneous and goes after one of the people who made a difference in this city, chris quinn. o without her it would have been a lot tougher, let me tell you. >> this is what's next for you. and joe has a great idea. >> it was brilliant. >> yes. it could be a good use of your money. everyone likes to talk about what to do with your money but

ultimately, it's your decision. >> yes. >> there's big problems in this country, one of which there is an awful lot of people that have no knowledge of finance and accounting and savings, they don't have bank accounts. if you don't have those kinds of -- that kind of knowledge and those things, you can't get a job and can't really participate. in "new york times" we tried financial empower mement center and worked with people who didn't have the financial advantages you and i have and how to enhance the yield. it worked well in this city. 19,000 reduced their debts dramatically. so my foundation is giving a grant to five other cities to do the same thing because it's working here and think it will work elsewhere. if it works elsewheres in five other cities, maybe cities after that will follow. nashville, tennessee, lansing, michigan, denver, colorado, philadelphia and san antonio, texas. they've gotten between 1 1/2 and

$3 million over three years to hire some people, to put together an organization and go out and raise some private money to match this money. together, they're going to teach people how to save, how to get a bank account, how to be responsible for their own finances. it's part of our initiative to try to make government at the local level and mayor's level do things for people. we've given half a dozen grants to coordinate volunteers in the city. given grants to half a dozen cities to innovate new things. we have this mayor's challenge where cities are competing to come up with ideas other cities can use and four cities win a million bucks and one city win 5 million bucks. >> to help people help themselves. >> give them a fishing rod, good for life and a fish, one good male. >> -- good meal. >> the other thing is a new ad out today about guns.

>> 20 heartbroken families in the sandy hook shootings. i know how bad it hurts. my 9-year-old daughter was murdered in the sandy hook shooting. i have one question to the political leaders. when will you find the courage to stand up to the gun lobby? whose child has to die next? we cannot wait. we have to have a plan. go to demand a plan.org. add your name. >> there's reporting you have been in contact with the vice president tasked do something. the president has vowed to try and get legislation through as soon as possible. there are realities to this. >> there are realities. the reality is most americans think it's crazy to have assault weapons and high capacity magazines. the vast majority of the people think they should be reasonable. the majority of the supreme court justices as well think there should be reasonable controls so you shouldn't have guns in the hands of minors or

criminals or people with psychiatric problems or substance abuse problems. there are some legislators who think differently or think that their careers would be limited if they go against the nra. i don't happen to think that's true. the nra was notoriously unsuccessful in this last election term. they set one major priority, to defeat barack obama. in a couple weeks you will see an inauguration. barack obama is get egg ing inaugurated again. shows you the power of the nra. in our case, we went against three members and in our cases the opponents won. ow can beat the nra. all you have to do is accept reasonable restrictions. nobody is trying to take away your gun or right to go hunting or target shooting or protection in your home. certainly have reasonable things so people aren't killed. you saw this woman talking about her 9-year-old daughter.

every parent sits there and thinks, if it was my kid. gabby giffords in the office in the office two years later still struggling in rehab. >> to hear from joe scarborough, the host of the show, change his view live on the air about this. you see joe mention coming out. you just saw a general talking about the fact that there is no place in our society here in america for these guns that blow up inside a human being's body. i think we're getting somewhere but i think it will be, dan senor, a long haul when you get to the sausage making in washington. >> this should be going on, a number of issues going on, gun control, the debt ceiling debate, immigration reform, another issue. you've been very outspoken on it. it will come up in the next few months hopefully. the way you talk about immigration, mr. mayor, the whole debate about immigration reform is on the scales of what kind of burden does immigration

pose to the country, how do we manage the burden. you said, it's not a burden. a jolt to our economy. >> most knowledgeable people would agree immigrants create jobs here. immigrants are a thousand times more likely to have a business, don't take away jobs, create jobs. seasonal workers take jobs from nobody and do things americans won't do and create jobs down the road. the economic benefits of having immigrants around the world, the countries starting to eat our lunch doing it because they want immigrants and we are trying to keep them out. the issue where it gets controversial, family reunification, you're here an want to bring your family over. the family reunification people are trying to hold the economic immigration changes hostage until they get some of that. that's the fundamental battle in congress. nobody is really opposed to the economics in the south and the north and east and west and agricultural and every industry,

everybody realizes they need them and they will create the jobs for americans tomorrow. like everything else in washington, nothing stands on its own. >> carl. >> it's an interesting discussion because all the issues we're talking about are poisoned by ideologically purity versus common sense. all of us know the three issues we just mentioned, there are easy solutions that meet common sense tests that are based on fact. every mayor in america knows about guns and the effects of these. all the mayors practically are on the same side of this issue. all the police chiefs in this country are on the same side of this issue. it's when we get to congress. >> the question, why do congress vote against sensible gun laws killing our cops and vote for fiscal policy this is a know will bankrupt us and why do they vote f vote -- don't vote for better

schools. irrational people don't do this. you locked up irrational people. >> and it is voting. >> and gerrymandering. >> because they have a job and want to feed their family like you want to feed your family and want to keep their job like you want to keep your job put the decision making does not sloinve those issues. that's what you talk about on this tv show, nothing to do about what they talk about when they decide. >> there was a time in this country when our political system, this is not just nostalgia, particularly in washington, when there was real concern about the natural interests versus parochial interests. we now have a politics based on parochial and ideologically interests and getting reelected at any cost versus national interest. >> i suspect there was a time in this country politics wasn't a full time job, you became like the mayor, successful

businessman, went into you did your bid and then went home. 100 plus years of legislative experience. joe biden became a senator when i was 1. these are lifetime politicians now. >> that's been going on for a long time. >> how do you have a sense of what people want when you've been away from people for so long sph. >> you mentioned joe biden and i will tell you, joe biden speaks his mind. you might not always agree with him. i endorsed his boss, although he's not going to deliver. he picked joe biden to focus the administration on guns. biden was the one that brought in the assault, chaired the committee. >> not picking on biden. >> i understand that. there are some, i think biden is a good example. he is one who speaks his mind and he says what he believes. everybody else is so afraid to do that. carl and i was talking

backstage. the next day you're in the paper and what you said taken out of context. if you want to know why people don't want to go into business because from everything -- how unfair i always thought, whether you like romney or not, policies buying companies that have nothing to do with it. we go after the wrong thing. >> we need context. >> we have cities and towns in the papers we were reading earlier in the show. voting to arm teachers and voting to arm principals. not like the people in washington are completely out of staff. >> i agree. >> so, i have a question for you, mr. mayor, on how to lead on this. when you leave office, if you really care about guns, put all your money where your mouth is. >> i have 356 days left to this job. >> well, i've said it is all going to be given away. >> you know it makes a difference in politics, money.

>> whatever i say about this mayor, he's pretty good. >> still have a year left. $350 million, what are you going to do? >> not giving his money away, i wouldn't go after him on that one. >> he makes a point, that you can make a difference because you have the money. >> i think a lot of people can. stanley mcchrystal is a guy who has more credible than i ever will have in terms of guns and the damage that guns can do and you get hit, but with a modern weapon and they'll take your arm off. >> we don't need to we told that. >> people like mcchrystal, i think, also, he doesn't have a lot of money to go away. devoted his life to public service. but stanley mcchrystal can be as good a spokesman as much as the five of us. i never thought that something wrong with the david cook on the right and giving away their money to try to influence the dialogue to what they believe. why shouldn't they do it?

you do it by being on television and people respect what you say and nothing wrong with that. >> could you regulate ammunition? >> hold on -- >> first thing you should regulate is piercing bullets. when was the last time you saw a deer wearing a vest? it's the only group i know of that wears a bullet resistant vest. why else would you buy a bullet unless you want to kill a cop? >> it's ridiculous that we're having this conversation. just a quick, random question. what do you think of chris christie as a politician? new approval rating coming out today at 73%. >> he's an in your face kind of guy. he's done well in new jersey. his style and my style are very different, but i think he's done a good job so far. he's got great challenges in new jersey and, you know, he's out there pounding the table. i sort of work differently. but you need all different kinds and i think, so far, chris

christie has done a good job. >> mayor bloomberg, thank you very much. let me know if you need any more advice on how to spend your money. >> thank you. >> really appreciate it. >> my people will call your people. >> we'll be following your financial empowerment initiative. it sound wonderful, thank you very much for that. coming up, former national security adviser under president carter. he's late, again. just got in the car, just now. sometimes what we suffer from is bigger than we think ... like the flu. with aches, fever and chills- the flu's a really big deal. so why treat it like it's a little cold? there's something that works differently than over-the-counter remedies.

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looking ahead to tomorrow actress laura will be with us. john mccain thought chuck hagel would make a good member of the presidential cabinet, even secretary of state. not so much now. we'll break down the resistance to hagel on capitol hill and what it spells for his potential confirmation to run the pentagon. we're back in just a moment. the boys use capital one venture miles

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>> drops it off, end zone, touchdown alabama. tide rolling, again. if this was a prize fight, they'd call it off. >> coach doesn't seem to be the defense that we have grown accustomed to seeing all season. where do the fixes need to come in the second half? >> maybe alabama doesn't come back in the second half. it's all alabama. good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. it's time to wake up, everyone. you see, take a live look at new york city. back with me on set along with willie geist, we have mike halprin. john hilman and alabama has cemented its status as a

bonified college football dinety after thrashing an overmatched notre dame 42-14 in last night's bcs championship game. willie, it just started badly for notre dame and never came back. it was over before it even began. >> two teams playing a different game. notre dame the higher ranked team at number one. they were the undefeated team. this was the time alabama was going to be taken down. it was clear ten minutes into the game that notre dame was overmatched. >> first half of the first quarter. >> it was 28-0 before you could blink your eye. >> i tried to watch. i did. i was like, i don't know, even past 10:00, but these on espn these men talking, they were obsessed with the girlfriend of -- i mean, they were look drooling over a beauty queen in the audience. is that how boring the game was or is that what they do, willie? >> i think it's a combination of both. but it was, indeed, a boring

game. i think what you're talking about, mika, the girlfriend of alabama quarterback a.j. mccarron. do they know it was kind of awkward? >> 20-year-old young lady. she is miss alabama, who, by the way, goes to auburn. >> this is awkward. >> he's an old school guy. >> this is not what happens or -- >> no. >> because i don't watch a lot of football. >> generally not what happens. >> let's see what mika thinks here. >> when you're a quarterback at alabama you see that lovely lady there, she does go to auburn, i want to admit that. miss alabama, a.j. mccarron's girlfriend. quarterbacks get all the beautiful women. >> so, if you're a youngster at alabama, start getting the football out and throw it around the backyard. >> there you go.

>> you get the musburger pass on that one. >> what? >> on slow episodes of this show, people -- >> to the right there is his mother who was not identified. >> okay, that poor lady. i mean, what's wrong with you people? look at the poor kid. >> so, we've got a lot, a lot went down yesterday. we were talking about the hagual announcement that was impending. it happened. a couple other announcements, as well. and departures. we'll get to that right now. president obama's choices for his second term national security team taking shape. former republican senator chuck hagel has been tapped to take over the lead at the pentagon from a leon panetta who offered some parting thoughts during the announcement. take a listen. >> the time has come for me to return to my wife, silvia, our three sons, their families, our

six grandchildren and my walnut farm. dealing with the different set of nuts. >> i ges when you're outgoing, mark halprin, you can do that. >> he's a funny guy and he survived in washington for public service for 50 years in military and executive branch in congress and not just being serious and smart and really funny guy and nice guy and incredible story and i was glad to see amid. >> all right, hagel, a decorated soldier and vietnam veteran has been nominated as the next secretary of defense and president obama emphasized his government service and personal connection to the organization he has now been nominated to run. >> for his independence and

commitment to consensus, he's earned the respect of military security and military leaders, republicans and democrats, including me. in the senate, i came to admire his courage and his judgment and his willingness to speak his mind, even if it wasn't popular. even if it defied inconventional wisdom. and that's exactly the spirit i want on my national security team. when it comes to the defense of our country, we're not democrats or republicans, we are americans. maybe most importantly, chuck knows that war is not an abstraction. he understands that sending young americans to fight in the dirt and mud is only something we do when it is absolutely necessary. my frame of reference, he says, is geared towards the guy at the bottom who is doing the fighting and the dying. >> one of hagel's former

colleagues, senate minority whip john cornyn says he has extreme concerns about the nomination. >> i know chuck hagel. he's an honorable man and record of distinguished service but profoundly wrong on a number of the most important national security issues that face our country today like denying iran nuclear weapons and like direct face-to-face negotiations with state department terrorist organizations like hamas and calling into question or commitment to our principal ally in the middle east, israel. >> all right, senator mccain released a statement echoing that sentiment, which is so interesting because i think he even considered hagel as secretary of state and his concept if he were president. but, anyhow, he said this yesterday. i have serious concerns about positions senator hagel has taken on a range of critical, national security issues in recent years. and then, as i just mentioned,

in 2006, while he was preparing to run for president, mccain was asked whether he would consider hagel for a cabinet post. he told "the new york times," i would be honored to have chuck with me in any capacity. he'd make a great secretary of state. john hilman? >> that's one of the things that speaks for itself. >> it does. what is wrong with these people? >> you know, look, there's a lot of, there are a lot of people who pointed out a lot of people who were fans of hagel's before he turned against the iraq war are not such big fans of chuck hagel. there was a time when chuck made the point on the show when his brand of foreign policy and national security outlook was the main stream of the party. he was vetted for vice president by dick cheney for george w. bush back in 2000.

that was enough, he was in the main stream of republican thinking not that long ago. the party has moved far to the right. that's part of what's happening and chuck hagel has not moved along with it and what is happening here some sense among a lot of republicans where we talked about the israel question, also a personal peak in the case of some people in and john mccain may be one of them. >> herald, joe made that point yesterday, too. some people in washington who personally don't like chuck hagel. they may like him personally, but he rubs some people the wrong way in terms of doing politics in d.c. what is going on when someone like senator mccain says one thing and people like lindsey graham brings up israel an awful lot. >> a think some of those substantive issues concern him. but chuck hagel has distanced himself from the republican party in a real insignificant

way. he essentially voiced support in 2008 for then senator obama's campaign for the presidency. traveled with him overseas and really worked to squash concerns raised by mccain at the time and even some of the republican party that somehow another barack obama was unfit and qualified and maybe not even an american. this confirmation hearing will be important, though. it's obvious even some democrats want to hear answers from senator hagel on a number of yil issues. i have confidence he will be confirmed unless one of the senators steps forward unless he or she will put a hold on this nomination, which i doubt will happen. as long as that doesn't happen we will have a spirited confirmation and he should be confirmed. >> some democrats being a little tepid but first mark halperin the two of you write about campaigns in game change about the mccain campaign. and i know a lot of things are said, i mean, so many things

happened. the incoming is just unbelievable for these candidates. but do you forget saying that someone would be a great secretary of state? do you forget saying that, feeling that, knowing that? how does that happen? how does senator mccain vote against chuck hagel? >> i don't think, first of all, i don't think john mccain has said he will vote against chuck hagel. >> i'm just saying, how does he do that? >> he might not in the end. >> i don't think he can or should. >> i imagine someone like chuck schumer right now who is not voicing. we're going to get to this in a second. come around and vote for chuck hagel. but, look, john mccain is a politician who has been throughout his career driven by personal, sometimes by personal grudges -- >> like susan rice. >> yes, that's another case where it is part of what is driving him. in this case, i do think part of what he would say if he were here, again, go back to the

policy point. you know, no greater champion of the iraq war, the surge, everything that happened after that that john mccain was and no greater republican critic of that than the republican critic than chuck hagel. i'm sure he would make the substantive case, although i believe part of it is personal. but also this element where they have very different world views now. >> which is why the confirmation hearing and the answers are going to be that much more critical. >> they are also, as you mention, herald appear to be some reservations from democrats. with members of the party short of offering hagel an endorsement. senator chuck schumer of new york has a statement, "chuck hagel has earned the right to nothing less than a full and fair process in the senate. i look forward to fully studying his record and exploring his views." at the white house yesterday, hagel did not address the controversy surrounding his nomination. >> mr. president, i'm grateful for this opportunity to serve

our country, again. and especially its men and women in uniform and their families. these are people who give so much to this nation every day with such dignity and selflessness. i will always do my best. i will do my best for our country and those i represent at the pentagon and for all our citizens. mr. president, i will always give you my honest and most informed council. >> hagel did, however, defend himself in an interview with his hometown newspaper in "the lincoln journal star" saying the distortions about my record have been astounding. adding there is not one shred of evidence. i am anti-israeli. not one vote that matters that hurt israel. so mark halperin back to the democrats and their sort of lukewarm response to this and to his comments in his hometown

newspaper. what do you make of it? is he correct in what he's saying about his record? >> some democrats have already supported jack reid, another veteran of senator and a few others are. some are holding their fire and keeping their drive, i can cram some cliches in there. it's unusual to do an interview when you're awaiting confirmation. each chose their hometown paper to do it. i think, why do we care about this as a political story? will he be confirmed or not? coming up next, talk more about the chuck hagel nomination with former security adviser zbigniew brzezinski. sugar, obesity and disease. we'll bring in well-known dr. robert lustig for some of his disturbing findings. are you kidding me?

heilemann, you're questioning this? >> no. i'd be eating a doughnut. a bear claw. let's go to -- >> i used to love those things. let's go to bill karins with a check of the forecast. >> well, good morning, everyone. worst commute out there down from houston to galveston. we're seeing thunderstorms and watch out this afternoon, some strong tostorms and maybe a few tornadoes. storms moving out of the houston area and galveston will be the worst of it over the next hour or two. this area in yellow that does include austin, san antonio, brownsville and the greater houston area all a threat for severe storms later this afternoon and tonight and, again, a few tornadoes possible. not really pretty in the northwest, you're waking up to another rainy morning from portland to seattle and we'll continue to watch that heading towards spokane who, by the way, had seven inches of snow yesterday. one of the few areas in the country. the warmth is very incredible

all the way heading into the great lakes. no signs at all of mid-winter weather conditions across our country. look at these temperatures today. we're in the 50s. the low 50s from denver to kansas city, st. louis all the way through kentucky into washington, d.c. that's extremely rare. usually one side of the country or another is brutally cold this time of year. but even minneapolis will be above freezing. that continues tomorrow, too. we have a chance of even hitting 60 degrees in the nation's capitol by the end of the week. speaking of a beautiful, sunny capital. washington, d.c., january beautiful day. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i'm only in my 60's...

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>> chuck hagel is the leader that our troops deserve. he is an american patriot. he enlisted in the army and volunteered for vietnam. to this day, chuck bears the scars and the shrapnel from the battles he fought in our name. as i saw during our visits together to afghanistan and iraq and chuck hagel, our troops see a decorated combat veteran of character and strength. they see one of their own. hey, 21 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now from washington, former national security adviser zbigniew brzezinski who is the author of "strategic vision." along with us, we have the president and the ceo of the atlantic council fred camp.

great to have fred back. carl bernstein and carl sullivan back at the table in new york. dan? >> you don't say brian or carl you just say, dan. >> we have my dad on. dad, i'd like to start with you and i'd love to hear from fred, especially as it pertains to the atlantic council. but, first of all, john kerry and chuck hagel along with the nnc, what do they bring to the table, if nominated, if the nomination goes through as a foreign policy team? >> i think they bring together a remarkably cohesive and strategically minded team. it's really quite impressive. they have been in this game for years. they know the issues. they have served the country and hagel, particularly, has served the country extraordinarily brave fashion. i think it's a strong team that will help the president, especially if the president is to be preoccupied with domestic

issues. i think this team is cohesive, experienced, strategic. and in a sense, it has a slightly different emphasize than the proceeding team. i thought secretary clinton was terrific and involved very much in the long-term global issues, human rights, gender issues, development, fairness and so forth. this team, i think, is going to be more focused on the crisis that we're likely to face all the way from north korea, all the way to the atlantic ocean. i think we're in for a very difficult time. >> fred camp, chime in and then we'll open up to the panel. >> let me agree with dr. brzezinski but go a step further. if you look at the first obama term, he's been commander in chief for four years, but really only now going to begin to see the president obama foreign policy and this is his team. senator kerry, senator hagel, john brennan at cia.

this is his team. hillary clinton was picked, as good as she was as secretary of state. he inherited bob gates as secretary of defense. he now has the people in place to do what he wants to do for his own legacy. i think one of those things is we'll be withdrawing from afghanistan and avoid getting into any new wars. with this team, the bar will be set pretty high for a third middle eastern war whether it has to do with iran or syria. >> carl bernstein? >> this is about having obama's own foreign policy that has been said, but something driving a lot of the opposition to hagel and that is his pronouncements about israel. i can say this perhaps because i'm jewish that the american/jewish community and the u.s. congress has got to stop confusing the party with israel. netanyahu are not israel. the so-called american jewish

lobby is not israel. israel is a great democracy and divided down the middle the same way we are and the idea as one of the senators from texas said a bit ago that the obama administration doesn't want to deny iran the nuclear bomb is absurd. it's time to have a truth-based conversation and policy about israel, about the palestinians, about the division in islam, in the islamic world and hagel and his team and kerry and obama can carry it forward. but it's time to stop kowtowing to netanyahu and the party. >> i'll go to my dad first. carefully, dad. >> i thought i was brave and wise and right to the point. it is, i think, very important to realize that some of these fanatical critics who slander you, who accuse you of

anti-semitism of hating israel are out of touch with a majority of israelis and majority of american jews. and they ought to be ignored because they're ruining the political process with that kind of language. >> dan senor. >> i think what's problematic about senator hagel, carl, he's been equally critical of the left and the right among israeli leaders. take 2006, war in lebanon, the war was prosecuted by prime minister amirt who did more than almost any israeli in recent memory and governor hagel said at the time systematically destroying the people of lebanon. it wasn't war against hezbollah. he called on president bush to impose a cease-fire, to stop. not netanyahu, systematic destruction of the people of lebanon.

i think this is not just about one party or faction or ideology that senator hagel has a problem with in israel and senator brzezinski, coming off what you just said. senator hagel has apologized for certain things that he has said that offended certain communities. he has clearly offended members of the jewish community about what he said about the jewish lobby and other things he said over the years. do you think he should apologize for those comments, too, and not just limit his apologies to the lbgt community? >> i think that's a very good example of what carl bernstein was talking about. not individual apologies for individual statements. in that particular case, i happen to remember it reasonably well. the problem was the high rate of lebanese civilian casualties and that is what was causing concern. human rights concern. perfectly legitimate concern over which one may disagree because war does involve human casualties. but the rates are pretty high and that is what was driving

chuck hagel. you may not agree with him, but it's not an issue which disqualifies him. >> let fred jump in on this. fred? >> i also heard dan earlier in the program talk about hagel being against iranian sanctions. it's just not true. he is against unilateral sanctions as a principprinciple. tends to isolate the united states and others will work around him. even ever stronger multi-lateral sanctions. what he also believes is that one has to engage. you don't make peace with your friend, you make peace with your enemies and adversaries and by engaging in the great american diplomat wrote about this in the "wall street journal" in defense of senator hagel that he understands by engaging, you learn about the fishiers within the other party's arguments. you ntdz what they want and don't want. you still may have to go to the

military force and he's never taken that off the table regarding iran, but just his whole history, his history from vietnam taught him that there is no glory in war. president obama said it best when nominating him yesterday and very movingly talking about how he's moved by the bleeding and dirt and the mud. and i think that's the way he'll look at it. that will be a last resort for a secretary of defense hagel and that's exactly where the president of the united states stands, as well. i think president hagel has been a little, excuse me, senator hagel has been a little bit, didn't mean to promote him too quickly. senator hagel has been frustrated by this period of time where he has not yet been nominated. i think you'll see someone coming into the confirmation hearings very ready to take on all of these questions and explain exactly why he considers himself a great friend of israel. >> i, it is fine if senator hagel supports multi-lateral

sanctions, but those have not been the superpiece sanctions most successful. in terms of sanctions that the administration pushed. many of those sanctions were unilateral sanctions. it's okay for him to say he opposed unilateral sanctions but the sanctions that the administration cite today in terms of the ones having the most effect, most are unilateral sanctions. he is declaring a failure, what is, in fact, one of the administrations by its own description. by its own description, one of its greatest successes. >> before we get to budget cuts. dad, would you like to respond to that or fred? >> to what? >> let me just quickly said -- >> fred than dad. >> what is giving them their teeth. there is no doubt that the u.s. has to lead the sanctions. but these are smart sanctions. they're into the banking system, they're very targeted and if you don't have help and support of international banks and major allies in the financial system,

these just won't work. the multi-lateral nature is giving them their teeth. >> dr. brzezinski? >> i don't think a candidate for the secretary of defense ought to be chastised publicly because he doesn't follow the preferences of the right wing in israel. i think that's behind this kind of argument that we just heard. >> okay. brian sullivan, on another note. >> i'll stay out of this conversation. we'll talk money. because that's what i know and dr. brzezinski, first off, it's a pleasure to work with your daughter. look how nice i am going to -- >> you have a great start. >> exactly, a good start. not sarcastic. trying to lighten it up a little bit. ph.d.. that's fine. that's still a doctor. let's talk money. defense, one of the big three. you've got social security, medicare, 61% of the federal budget. republicans seem concerned that hagel would slice the defense

budget maybe too deeply. do you agree with their concerns? why or why not? >> are you asking me? >> yes, sir. >> quite frankly, i don't know. i don't know how much he wants to slash. so, i don't know if it's too deep. >> is there any to be slashed, in your mind, sir? >> i think probably something could be slashed. look, one basic fact. very simple fact which makes me personally feel that something could be slashed. the united states is one country in the world out of 190 countries. we spend on national defense as much as all of the other 189 combined. i think that's slightly excessive. we probably can cut. >> fred, do you agree with that? >> one of the great heroes for senator hagel and he offered me a look at this book about him. president eisenhower. and president eisenhower had a very, very sober view of military spending and, of course, came in after a war and had to make some tough

decisions. this, obviously, president obama's decision in the end. but as mika knows, i worked with senator hagel for four years very closely at the atlantic council and he's tough and he expects performance and he has very high expectations of people serving him. so, he as ryan crocker said, the great ambassder and diplomat. he will run the department of defense, the department of defense won't run him. does it mean deeper cuts or smarter cuts? certainly in this budget situation, you're going to have a real hard look at the defense budget and i think he'll bring his business and his toughness to play in this. >> all right, fred kempe great to have you on the show. zbigniew brzezinski and thank you for being nice to dan. >> i was nice to him, too. >> i tried hard. >> i know you tried hard. >> he was actually, just so you know, you were on right before thanksgiving and i joked because my dad was so cutting to you.

i said see you at thanksgiving dinner. my dad e-mailed me. he was worried you were coming. >> i actually contemplated coming. >> that would have been fun. >> you would have been cool with that? >> you would have been down with me showing up at thanksgiving. >> thanksgiving spirit would have prevailed. >> 2013, good year for us. >> could i come to festivus at your house? taking on sugar and processed food. our next guest is one of the leading voices on the swwidesprd dangers of the sweet stuff.

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okay. joining us now for the weight assessment of child and teen program at uc san francisco dr. lustig. he's out with an extremely important new book. "fat chance beating the odds against sugar, processed food, obesity and disease." everybody should buy this book and read from it. this is going to be cutting edge in terms of how we look at food

and, specifically, let's talk about sugar. which you lay the blame of obesity on sugar. >> actually, i really don't. there are lots and lots of ways to get obese. >> okay. >> lots of different food stuff that contribute to weight gain. for instance, harvard school of public health showed potato chips and french fries were the biggest single contributors to weight gain. >> absolutely. >> the thing about sugar that is so cit is the cause. the thing that takes you from obesity to all the metabolic problems that occur secondary to obesity. that is the hypertension, the diabetes, the heart disease and likely the cancer and the dementia. conglomerately we call this metabolic syndrome. >> got it. okay. that characterizes it well. >> that's where the money goes. >> it does, we can talk about --

>> this is a political problem as well as a medical problem. i think we have to talk about it in that context because of subsidies that go to corn industry, that go into farm bill. et cetera. i don't want to interrupt the doctor. >> let's do the science really quick and then let's get to the money, which is the politics. would you consider sugar to be toxic? >> in high dose, sugar does all of the same things as alcohol does. in terms of how it is metabolized and what it does to the liver and all the diseases down stream that alcohol causes, sugar causes, as well. now, if you are on the gridiron. if you've exercised for three hours. if you've depleted your liver starch or glycogen and you consume a sugar beverage like gatorade, you will rebuild that glycogen and everybody else, that's turning into liver fat

and driving that insulin resistance in the liver and causing the same metabolic processes and causing the metabolic dysfunction. in high dose, sugar is toxic. you have to know where your dose is and probably it's different than everyone. >> a 9-year-old drinking an orange soda and then not doing much that day. >> that would be a problem. >> what kind of a problem, doctor? >> we now see that up to 13% of normal weight children and 38% of obese children now have nonalcoholic fatty liver disease. this was a disease not recognized to 1980. >> why do we even have soda -- >> one-third of americans and that can progress to sorosis and the single leading cause of liver transplantation in america. >> kids are living on sugar all day long and this epidemic of behavior problems, as well. "national geographic" said if

sugar were discovered today it would be a regulated narcotic. if it was just found today, it would be regulated under fda guidelines. >> we don't know how much sugar is in our diet because we're not talking about buying candy or my obsession with soda pop. >> one-third of the sugar in our diet is in sodas, sugar sweetened beverages. >> you can taste it. >> one-sixth is in desserts. you can know about those. but one-half of all the sugar consumed in this country is in foods that you didn't know had sugar. like, for instance, salad dressing, hamburger buns, hamburger meat. >> the government is happy to subsidize that below cost for the sugar industry, as well. correct? >> that's right. >> it doesn't taste good, add more sugar. >> guess what, it sells. that's exactly what is happening. >> sugar is delicious. >> what is your prescription then?

there's this epidemic and people need to wake up to it and do what? >> every single addictive substance and sugar is weakly addictive like alcohol is. every addictive substance has required personal intervention, which for lack of a better word we can call rehab and rehab and laws for cocaine, for nicotine, for alcohol, for heroin, you name it. sugar meets all of those same criteria of toxicity and abuse. we need a personal intervention, rehab, if you will. what will that look like? well, the bottom line is people need to know what's going on in order to be able to educate themselves. i just had an op-ed in the "san francisco chronicle" about how the food label had to change with respect to this to educate the populous. and then societial intervention. what would that look like? well, as long as the food industry is allowed to put any amount of sugar in any processed food that they want with

ipunity, this cannot get fixed. >> labeling. >> labeling is part of it. >> you said we need an intervention rehab. were you joking around? >> no, not at all. >> that leads me to believe what i already believe and that some of these substances, including sugar, are addictive. that you, once you start eating them in large quantities, especially early on in life, you can't stop. >> right. >> a lot of people who are obese are not undisciplined and are not jokes and are not to be made fun of, but they are part of the problem with our food environment and an addiction that has developed within their own bodies. am i crazy? >> no, you're not crazy at all. the reward center of the brain and the reward neuro transmitter called dopamine when receptors go down which is what happens when you constantly bombard them, then what you need is more of whatever it is, in this case, sugar, to accomplish the same

effect. that's called tolerance. and tolerance is the first step on the way to addiction. we have the data in animals that sugar is addictive. the question is, is it addictive in humans? the data is -- >> with i have to get in here because obesity is probably one of the greatest economic threats to this country, as well. >> absolutely. >> hundreds of billions a year are linked to obesity. cancer linked to obesity. so, listen, we're going to go bust if we don't figure this out. how do we solve it? tax the food companies and soda companies more? how do we fix it because it's literally eating our budget. >> two politicians have taken it on. bill clinton in his foundation and mayor bloomberg who was here earlier. there are some real solutions. >> mayor bloomberg has taken it on. i'll tell you that the big gulp ban is a baby step. it's in the right direction. it will not solve obesity. but it's at least a start. >> it's willingness. >> now, bill clinton is a different story.

he and governor huckabee went to the beverage industry and they got them to remove sugared sweetened beverages from elementary schools and middle schools. whey do you think they did that? they didn't remove the juice and sports drinks. all they did was change their vending machines. >> the book is "fat chance." you can read an excerpt on our blog, mojo.msnbc.com. thank you for writing this book. thank you for being part of mine in the spring, which addresses addiction. i still truly believe we're going to have, just like the tobacco suits. >> we're starting them. we're starting them. we're starting a nonprofit to do just that. >> wow. that's going to be -- >> it's coming here. >> you think we're crazy, we're not. up next the country's biggest banks plan to shell out $20 billion. business headlines with brian

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some of the biggest banks in the country are shelling out billions of dollars over predatory mortgage practices. brian sullivan has that story now in "business before the bell." >> $20 billion so far paid by the banks over the alleged mortgage practices and that is a huge story at bank of america yesterday. $11 billion deal, folks. here's the problem. they're spending all this money and selling off a bunch of loans and companies picking up the services and companies you would pay your mortgage bill to. the industry has spent $1.5 billion so far on consultants and about $0 have gone to the people affected. so, once again, consultants and

lawyers win. the public maybe not so much. still, though, if you're mad at the banks, they are paying up to the tune of about 20 billion bucks. >> that's a lot of money. thanks for being on the show this morning. >> you're welcome. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." so, we all set? i've got two tickets to paradise! pack your bags, we'll leave tonight. uhh, it's next month, actually... eddie continues singing: to tickets to... paradiiiiiise! no four. remember? whoooa whooaa whooo! you know ronny, folks who save hundreds of dollars by switching to geico sure are happy. and how happy are they jimmy? happier than eddie money running a travel agency. get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more.

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